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Welcome to The Energy Exchange podcast by the Energy Bar Association

The Energy Exchange podcasts are conversations with luminaries across the energy industry.  The interviewees are thought leaders, CEOs, attorneys, cutting edge entrepreneurs, and experts who have a deep understanding of energy issues and are working to shape our energy future.

Why The Energy Exchange?

‚ÄčIn 2021, to celebrate the Energy Bar Association’s 75th Anniversary, we are pleased to introduce EBA Energy Exchange.  The podcast offers a consistent show with strong guests and unexpected insights.  A unique perspective on the individuals interviewed and their particular arc.  A strong and growing audience – 1,000 listeners.  To make a difference in energy policies and our discourse around energy policy and help expand the EBA’s presence throughout the country and beyond.

Who is the audience? 

Energy Attorneys, Energy Professionals, law and graduate students and undergraduates, and anyone who wants an evidenced based, real-world discussion about some of the challenges we face in generating, distributing, and using energy. 

Why should you listen to The Energy Exchange?

To join the conversation and ultimately to fashion better energy policies, strategies, and regulations.

Episodes Available on:

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About our Host:


Mosby Perrow 

Mosby lives in Houston, Texas, and counsels and consults for energy companies.  He has represented a range of energy stakeholders throughout his career, including electric utilities, interstate pipelines, renewable project developers, private equity and energy startups.  He began his career with the federal government as an attorney/advisor to FERC’s Office of General Counsel, practiced law with Jones Day in DC and Houston, and recently served as Vice President and Deputy General Counsel for Kinder Morgan, an energy infrastructure company based in Houston.  Mosby is the President of the Energy Bar Association and is excited to be hosting the inaugural season of EBA’s Energy Exchange.






Catherine J.K. Sandoval is a tenured Law Professor at Santa Clara University who teaches and conducts research on Energy, Communications, Antitrust, and Contract law. Her scholarship analyzes legal and policy drivers of energy, communications, and water infrastructure safety, reliability, and access gaps. She served a six-year term as a Commissioner of the California Public Utilities Commission, appointed by Governor Brown. Professor Sandoval serves as Director of Santa Clara University’s Oxford University Summer Law Program, and Co-Director of SCU Law’s High-Tech Law Institute and The Broadband Institute of California. She hails from a trailer park in East Los Angeles and communities facing environmental justice issues. She is the first Latinx CPUC Commissioner, first Latina Rhodes Scholar, and first in her family to earn a B.A. degree. She earned a B.A. from Yale University, a Master of Letters from Oxford University, and a J.D. from Stanford Law School. Her book chapter, Energy Access is Energy Justice, The Yurok Tribe’s Trailblazing Work to Close the Native American Reservation Electricity Gap, was published in ENERGY JUSTICE, US AND INTERNATIONAL PERSPECTIVES (2018).

In this episode, Catherine discusses her journey from a trailer park in East Los Angeles to studying at Yale, Oxford, and Stanford Law.  Catherine tells Mosby about her first winter in New Haven and being the first Latina Rhode Scholar.  They dig into net neutrality and its implications for energy policy, Catherine’s experience with the Yurok tribe in Northern California on access to energy issues, and climate justice.  Catherine shares stories from her time as a Commissioner on the California Public Service Commission and some recommendations on books and productive habits.



Solomon,_Robert_professional_photoRobert H. Solomon, Solicitor, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, Office of General Counsel, Member US Senior Executive Service, Professorial Lecturer in Law, George Washington University Law School, Adjunct Professor of Law, American University George Washington College of Law

In this episode, Bob shares his insights from decades of experience defending the FERC on appeal before Federal Appellate Courts including landmark decisions before the DC Circuit and the Fourth Circuit.  Mosby and Bob also discuss pop music, Bob’s collection of presidential campaign buttons, and the restorative benefits of multi-day hiking and biking.  Bob explains why FERC’s Office of General Counsel is the best energy law firm in the country and two of the best gifts he ever received.



Russo,_Suzanna_square_(photo)Suzanne Russo is chief executive officer for Pecan Street, having previously served as its chief of staff and chief operating officer. During her time at Pecan Street, Forbes named her one of five women ‘Using Technology to Blow Up Social Change.’ Suzanne also worked for New York City’s Department of Housing Preservation and Development. An urban planner with a masters degree in community and regional planning from the University of Texas at Austin, Suzanne has worked in Africa, China, India and the USA on community-based sustainable development.

In this conversation Suzanne talks about her time in New York at the Department of Housing Preservation and Development and the skills she learned working on energy efficiency projects there. We discuss her time in Kenya and how that shifted her focus to the human environment as she worked on solving issues related to energy conservation. We touch on the Texas blackout, systems level thinking, and her vision for a data utility regulator to ensure we get the most out of our smart grids, meters, and other sensors that we are going to need if we want to get to net zero.





Cheryl A. LaFleur is a Distinguished Visiting Fellow at the Center on Global Energy Policy.  She a nationally-recognized energy leader and a member of the Board of Directors of the Independent System Operator of New England (ISO-NE).  LaFleur was one of the longest-serving commissioners on the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC). nominated by President Obama. LaFleur served as Chairman and as Acting Chairman of FERC.

Marc L. Spitzer is a former member of the Arizona State Senate and former Commissioner of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC).  Spitzer is a partner at Steptoe & Johnson LLP, where he represents utilities and energy companies before FERC and state utility commissions. 

In this episode, Marc and Cheryl talk about shaping energy policy and how important communication, compromise and leadership are in government, especially at a time like now where the country emerges from the pandemic and renews its focus on climate change and the economy.  Cheryl and Marc hail from different backgrounds, philosophical leanings, and political parties, but over the years and at FERC, they have managed to find common ground on a number of important issues.  They have genuine respect for each other and both enjoy the power and beauty of truly engaging with people who disagree with you.  Not only do we go deep on electricity markets, climate change, environmental justice, and politics, but Commissioners LaFleur and Spitzer share personal stories and anecdotes, from navigating social norms at Princeton to writing a spy novel to perceived setbacks that end up opening new horizons. 



Gasteiger,_LarryExecutive Director of WIRES, former Chief of Federal Regulatory Policy at Public Service Enterprise Group Incorporated (PSEG), held various senior leadership positions in a long career at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, worked as an Attorney for the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, and clerked for the Honorable Edwin M. Kosik in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania.

In this episode, Mosby talks with Larry Gasteiger about his start working for a federal district court judge in Scranton, Pennsylvania before The Office was a thing.  They cover Larry’s early days at the Commodities Futures Trade Commission and discuss futures contracts, domestic terrorism, and a close encounter with a famous performer.  Larry shares secrets on preparing for oral argument and putting together a strong case on appeal from his long tenure as a solicitor at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.  Larry shares WIRES’ vision for a more robust high voltage transmission system and responds to questions about alternatives, who pays, and nationalizing the grid. 




Bidtah_Becker_-_SquareAttorney for the Navajo Tribal Utility Authority, Former Director of the Navajo Nation Division of Natural Resources. 

In this conversation, Mosby speaks with Bidtah about growing up in New Mexico as a member of the Navajo Nation, her experience as a student at Georgetown University, a mission trip to the Rama Peninsula in Nicaragua just after its Civil War and how that shifted her focus back home. Bidtah discusses the incredible history of the Navajo Tribal Utility Authority and the intricate web of regulations, treaties, history, culture, and negotiation that have shaped energy and water rights and policies in Indian Country, and how those norms are changing with the rise of a new generation of Native American professionals.  Bidtah explains how we are in an inflection point in history where we can rethink our approaches and reconsider the value of life and the intrinsic value of natural resources to our human lives, and find more equitable paths forward. 



Stanek,_Jason_(square)Chairman of the Maryland Public Service Commission, Former Senior Counsel to the Energy Subcommittee of the U.S. House of Representatives’ Committee on Energy and Commerce, former senior positions at Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), National Fuel Gas Company, and Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Member of Committee on Electricity and Committee on International Relations for the National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners (NARUC), serves on the Board of Directors for the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI), Center for Public Utilities Advisory Council and the Critical Consumer Issues Forum (CCIF) Advisory Committee.

In this episode of the Energy Exchange, Mosby talks to Jason about time travel through visiting hydroelectric facilities and Jason's front row seat as Chairman Pat Wood's legal advisor in the wake of the Western Energy Crisis of 2000-2001. Jason discusses the Maryland PSC's efforts to regulate utilities during a time of great change, including the challenges posed by capacity markets, getting offshore wind to market, and rolling out electric vehicles charging infrastructure. Mosby and Jason discuss equitable access to energy and some solutions Maryland is considering. Jason sheds light on the origins of Maryland's own Chesapeake Bay Retriever, his current interest in architecture, the importance of mentors, and strength from diversity.



Board of Trustees North American Electric Reliability Corporation, Retired President and CEO of the American Public Power Association, former Attorney Miller, Balis & O'Neil, Former Attorney with the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association, Past President of EBA and served on the U.S. Department of Energy's Electricity Advisory Committee under two Presidents from different parties.

In this episode of the Energy Exchange, Mosby asks Sue Kelly about her time representing Coops against the backdrop of looming bankruptcies in the wake of the Texas Blackout of 2021.  Sue shares her thoughts on making choices and being confident that life is not linear and one can always make another choice.  Mosby asks Sue to discuss electric reliability, what the blackouts in Texas may teach us, and how we might prepare the grid of the future for even more renewable resources.  Sue reveals what she learned moving from being general counsel of a trade association to becoming its President and CEO.  Sue gives a life lesson she learned from Willy Nelson, explains a gift of knitting, and tells why she joins a massive chorus to sing Handel's The Messiah every year.




Partner Kirkland & Ellis, former General Counsel Baltimore Gas and Electric, former Editor-in-Chief of Energy Law Journal, Past President of EBA and recipient of Paul E. Nordstrom Service Award for exceptional service

‚ÄčIn this episode of the Energy Exchange, Mosby sits down with Bob Fleishman, long-time energy attorney and former President of the Energy Bar Association, to talk about Bob's journey from government service to in-house counsel to private practice.  Bob explains what a PUS was at FERC and why he was proud to be one.  He talks about his experiences growing up with martial arts and how taking lawyers to laser tag skirmishes helped him lead his legal team during electric restructuring.  Mosby asks Bob about his different transitions, and Bob reveals that when he left BG&E, he thought about becoming a Rabbi.  Bob shares stories about his many years with EBA and doing pro bono work, and they discuss what receiving the Paul E. Nordstrom Service Award in 2016 meant for him.